HOW CORPORATE EVENTS ARE LIKE BROADWAY SHOWS

In this episode, we’re talking with Chuck Santoro, Chief Creative at Proscenium Events about how corporate events are like theater. In 30 minutes, Chuck name-checks Hamilton, West Side Story, Les Miz, Stomp, and even turns the tables on our theatrically minded host. 

You can read the transcript below or listen to Episode 7 on the episode page, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Episode 7 Transcript 

JEREMY: Alright, I am here with Chuck Santoro, who is the chief creative at Proscenium which means he’s my boss.

We are here to talk about theater and corporate events. Now, Chuck comes from the theater, and I come from the theater. It's funny when Chuck started his team at Proscenium, correct me if I'm wrong, but you were insistent that all his creative directors come from theater.

When you went to recruiters right before you hired me, you were getting people from advertising and marketing and you were like, “NO, I want theater people.”

Where I want to start is why, what is so great about theater people?

CHUCK: It's not just theater people. It was the performing arts in general so just having a performing background. There are some great creative directors who come from the advertising world, but I felt like a differentiator when proceeding them.

Specifically, one reason we're called Proscenium, some people know what a proscenium is, and some don't.

BETHANY: This is behind the scenes Bethany breaking in with a fact check. A proscenium is a supporting arch in front of a stage through which the audience experiences a performance.

CHUCK: I think having a theatrical background can translate into our industry very well in some way. As you know, our team is made up of people who've worked in all different aspects of performing, so they can bring that experience to the world of events.

JEREMY: Why is that important? Why are corporate events like theater or Broadway shows?

CHUCK: I think one Christmas, you got me a great book, which I still have and love. It is about the beginnings of this industry and how it really was born by theater professionals.

BETHANY: This is behind the scenes Bethany breaking in with another fact check. The book Chuck is talking about is called Everything's Coming Up Profits, which brings the lost world of industrial musicals to vivid, astonishing life.

CHUCK: Back then, there were all the composers, lyricists, and writers who were working on Broadway and every now and then moonlighting in this world by using their talents to sell products for Bridgestone tires or bathroom accessories.

One of my personal favorites is a lamenting song about a woman's bathroom. It's really how this industry started. I think that for many years, we've gone away from that, but I see every now and then there's an opportunity to bring that to the events.

JEREMY: Why do you think it got away from that? You're right, that's how events started. That's our rich history. They really were musicals. They were many musicals but they're not anymore.

Is that a good thing? Is that a bad thing? Is that just a natural progression?

CHUCK: We call them shows. I know some other companies call them programs, but they are shows. I think there's still a beginning, middle, and end. I still think there are our actors, though now are corporate executives, who are basically characters in our play. We want to move the audience in whatever way we can.

What do we want our audience to think of on their plane ride home? What does an audience want to feel after they exit a Broadway show? I think there are still similarities. Now, I think the song and dance elements are not the same as what they used to be, but every now and then it pops up.

I think you did an amazing production of our Heineken distributors meeting. You had an opening razzle-dazzle, Chicago number, which was focused on beer. I have to say, I was so excited when you invited me to that final dress rehearsal in New York. I was just overjoyed.

You know, when we have these opportunities, they're just so exciting. I think it was a great way to open that show and use your talents. That's your background, as well. It was great to see that come to life for one of our clients.

JEREMY: It is interesting. We don't really do them like musicals anymore, but if the information isn't entertaining in some fashion, then you're likely to have less engagement from the audience. I feel like one of the parts of our job is still figuring out if it's a little bit more of a challenge.

What are you going to do that's going to keep the audience interested and let them have a good time together?

CHUCK: It's also very memorable. What the attendees remember isn't always what the executives are talking about. You know what they remember, and they talk about it like, “Oh that was a show with the drum line or that’s when you had the rock band open the show.” The memorable moments are sometimes these theatrical moments, not always the musical numbers. It is like I was saying it's a musical piece that is memorable, and that is what people talk about after the show.

JEREMY: We actually just finished up a show with our friend MiG, who I hope will be on the podcast soon. We had a lot of music in the show. He's a brilliant musician who brings music to corporate events.

One of the bits of feedback that we got from the client, afterwards, was the attendees were saying this was so memorable because of the music. It's hard to remember what we did last year, but nobody's going to forget all of this music.

It really brings the story to life in a way for the attendees that's really exciting. Tell us a little bit about Stomp because I love that story.

CHUCK: Stomp is such a classic. It's been around forever, and I think I had seen Stomp many years ago in New York. It's such an innovative show using found objects. I got to do my own versions of that twice.

One was for a pharmaceutical launch where they were talking about the new product being a pill, not injectable. We wanted to celebrate the pill that was being used, so we started with an actor playing a doctor and another actor playing a pharmaceutical representative. It started with hearing the sound of a pill bottle shaking led to the sound of a clipboard being banged to a big finale with tapping on a doctor's desk.

I think that's the important thing. It was also about the message. It wasn't just entertainment for entertainment. This was illustrating the point that we now have this product in pill form.

Then another time for a hardware company with all the found objects that they use at the store. The things that we were going to be focusing on was what the fourth quarter selling consisted of. Bringing those products to life and letting them have a personality on stage was another way of using that kind of theatrical device in a corporate event.

JEREMY: That's a great example of how corporate events are like theater. Are there any ways in which you think they're different? What is it that theater can do that events can't do or vice versa?

CHUCK: Nobody dies at a corporate event, like in some Shakespeare. Let's hope not.

[CHUCK & JEREMY LAUGH]

I've done some shows and there are some very emotional moments when we bring a patient profile to life or customer. I spent a few days with a family outside of Virginia for a video that was one of the more fulfilling pieces that we got to do. That was a store manager who went above and beyond for a family with a child who had autism. That person ended up getting promoted when we were at the actual show.

I think there's emotion in the same way that a good play elicits emotion. It could be a comedy, tragedy, or whatever you have. I think at the end of the day, what we're doing is not about entertainment. Using entertainment to tell our corporate story is a little bit different than going to see Les Mis.

JEREMY: Yes.

CHUCK: I think that's the great thing about being in New York. I know it's been tough right now in the environment we've been in. As we're getting back and seeing more things, I know my inspiration has to do with walking the streets of New York. Not being able to see & be in New York City, see shows, and be inspired by art installations & museums anymore, has been unfortunate with what's going on in the world, but I'm looking forward to going back to live events.

JEREMY: As life comes back, what do you think? I mean, everybody keeps saying we're not going back but we're going to something new. So as far as events go, what does that mean? What will the new event landscape look like?

CHUCK: I think there's so much that we still don't know. We're just still figuring it out because I think there was a really wonderful job done with bringing the virtual events to life as best as we could in the last few years. Now there are some people who can't wait for live, and there are also a lot of people who are totally fine and happy to get the message at home.

How are you catering to these two very different audiences who usually absorb information in very different ways? I think that's the kind of challenge for us going forward. It is how are we going to find this new and hybrid, as they are still calling it, a platform to give them information in a different way.

JEREMY: Well, it also really depends on the goal of the event. Is that something where you really need people in a room together like networking, for example? If it's an event that's all about networking then yes you can do it virtually, but it's not the same. That's something that you want to fly to wherever the place is and get in a room with people.

CHUCK: I always said there's still something about a live event that you can't replicate. I think there's some theater when you put a video to it. Hamilton is still selling it, but you could see Hamilton for free on Disney Plus right now.

Let's talk about that for a second. It's different than seeing the movie West Side Story compared to the theatrical production of it. Two different things that did a great job filming. It’s still selling out and there’s a new cast, so there are nuances. I love the new cast.

We know the lead playing Hamilton. He's amazing, so it's worth seeing, even if you've seen it on Disney Plus.

Why are people going, Jeremy? I'll ask you that.

JEREMY: Well, it's what you said. It's an experience that you can't get it any other way. When you're in a theater full of people and everybody laughs at the same time, gasps, or cries, you have an experience of humanity and of being a part of a community that you can't have by yourself.

It's just not possible. In our world, you have something similar like award ceremonies, and sometimes people aren't engaged or interested. When people care and are genuinely rooting for each other, proud of each other, and excited for each other, that energy in the room and that feeling of joy that people are expressing for each other can't be matched.

CHUCK: I never thought in a million years that would be such a huge part of our job. I think that there is something about the recognition of the employees. I think we've done a very good job of coming up with very different kinds of awards ceremonies.

Sometimes people walk onto the stage, and they don't know if they're going to win or not. I always tell the teams, specifically the designers, to look at award shows and look at what's out there. There are so many different ones. I think content and graphics are used in amazing ways when you look at the Oscars, The Golden Globes, or the MTV Music Awards.

We do award shows, and this is their moment to shine. I think it is fascinating to see that and the evolution of how awards are such a big part of many of our shows that we do.

Let me ask you something, Jeremy. You are a published playwright and you're an amazing writer, as well. How has your playwriting, before coming into this field, helped you? What have been the biggest differences and similarities when it comes to the writing?

JEREMY: There are two sides to it. One is dialogue, obviously, you're writing dialogue for someone else to say. When it's a character that you're making up in your head, you can decide whether that person is angry, gruff, or silly. When it's an executive, you have to find that voice, write for that voice, and understand that he would say the sentence this way, but he wouldn't say it that way. You have to develop for them.

The other thing is structure. As a playwright, I'm very interested in the structure and why are we telling the story the way we're telling it. In corporate events, you have that in two ways. You have the structure of one person's speech. What is the journey you're taking them on?

You also have the structure of the entire event. How does each speech play into that structure? What is the kind of journey that we're taking the audience on? Not just in these 10 minutes, but over the course of the whole day. How do you put that together in a way for maximum efficiency for the audience?

That's really interesting.

CHUCK: I do think that there are some things to be said about your question earlier about why I look for theater people. There is a sense of getting the job done, like comradery or team spirit. We're all in this together and rolling up our sleeves. I think there's something there. We were taught a certain way as young actors, and then with you and I turning into young directors, I think we could be scrappy.

I think that was the other thing. Once we got to this world where we can know what we're dealing with, I think we can come up with innovative solutions on a tighter budget. You ran a theater in New Jersey where your budgets weren't huge, and it is your experience there that I do think has helped in this industry, as well.

JEREMY: I totally agree about theater people. I think the stereotype is that artists are airy, flaky, and they're waiting for the muse. I think that it's the absolute opposite.

You know when it's opening night, there's never someone saying we're not ready or that we'll do it tomorrow. You know how to hit a deadline, hit a budget, manage people, and how to work with people. You've got to get along in order to make this thing work.

CHUCK: I think one of the biggest differences in our world now is that we, for the most part, open and close on the same day. We know we're going to and that's always, at least in theater, a preview period that you can tweak or move things.

We did an event recently. It was an amazing finale with drones. It was so well done. Sam, on our team, did such a beautiful job putting it together with music and it was amazing. Then there was wind, and we had a camp. I'll never forget how I had to make that call when they were in my ears saying it's over 25 miles an hour, we can't do it.

I knew we wouldn't have another chance, and we had a plan B. The audience never knew. They didn't know there were drones. We didn't promise them drones, but I think that flexibility is helpful with our theater background. There is one of the disadvantages of our industry. We were not going to get to do this again.

JEREMY: You've always said don't marry the creative. You know that you may love it, but it may not happen. It may not happen quite the way you wanted it to happen, as well. You've got to be okay with that. That's certainly similar to theaters. You're always making compromises for one reason or another and just fighting for what you think is artistically right. However, it doesn't always end up.

CHUCK: Totally. I think there are so many times that I think about going back to Broadway musicals. There are amazing songs in musicals that get cut for one reason or another. They didn't advance the storyline, or it wasn't right for the character. You could read the reasons why, but they're brilliant songs that were cut.

They were cut, and I think of that often in our world. For instance, there have been times in my career when something I love so much gets cut. Sometimes it's time. I did a show once where we had this amazing video, and I remember the client saying we're going to cut that video.

It was just three minutes, but we were running long, and it had to get cut and no one ever saw that video. A lot of money was spent on that video, but forget about the money, think about the time, the heart, and the soul. It happens all the time, but you just have to think that it's best for the show at that time.

Maybe they'll see the light of day and sometimes they do. I think that's why a lot of composers look at the classic divisors at Hammerstein. Some songs that were cut from earlier works were then re-lyric and put in later. I think that happens.

JEREMY: Oh, it definitely happens. Speaking of time, I think it is time to move on to the Lightning Round. As an avid listener, you know how the lightning round works. We've got three questions we ask every time.

Our first question is who's your biggest get? A speaker, entertainer, or subject matter expert that you would either love to see at a live event or someone who you would love to coach.

CHUCK: I've always wanted Steven Spielberg to come and talk about his creative process. I've been a fan of his work because it's so diverse. When you think about the man who did ITI and Schindler's List, it's just wow. It's not just one. He's always someone I've wanted to hear speak.

JEREMY: He is amazing. You don't see him a lot.

CHUCK: You don’t, and he takes some time off. I love that he hasn’t done a lot of music, and then he's going to do West Side Story.

JEREMY: That's a good one. What is one thing you wish presenters did more of or less of?

CHUCK: It is rehearsing. Going back to theater and what we were talking about, I always say imagine if I'm just going to go on stage today in front of that audience and not rehearse. Hugh Jackman didn't just walk on stage and start singing 76 Trombones. He went through rehearsals, and I feel like every speaker and executive at our events, depending on what it is, would. It always helps.

JEREMY: Let's dive a little bit deeper into that. When you rehearse with somebody and they say that I'm going to give you, whatever it is, an hour and rehearse with you.

What are you looking to do with that person that you think is going to make an appreciable difference?

CHUCK: Well, honestly, it depends on the time I'm given. If I have an hour, I think of how to maximize the hour. What can I do within that hour? I can't start from scratch. I'm not going to have a week of rehearsal, which would be different than an hour.

What are the key things that I could do to help that presenter put their best presentation in front of their most important audiences? It’s just inflection of the voice on the key messages to also work with the graphics behind them. I think that's another thing that we do. We're not just directing the executive, we're directing the whole experience, which is all the content that's surrounding them.

I think there have been times in my career when executives or CEOs of companies were in our office, and we just have a one-on-one conversation. These conversations bring in stories. I think audiences love stories and personalizing stories. Those are going to be very memorable.

JEREMY: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Last question, what is something, could be a book, a movie, a song, whatever you like, that was a big influence on you and particularly, if possible, influenced your professional career?

CHUCK: Kimmy who is this star in Star Wars? A lot of people know my love of Star Wars. As I sit in my Star Wars office, I think it is the reason that it helped me become who I am as a creative, as silly as it is. My Star Wars toys created these universes outside the movies. I would have these conversations with them and create these scenarios using the same characters but creating these different scenarios and sometimes bringing those to life.

I think as I grew up, I was so into the movies that I still am to this day, so I should also thank George Lucas.

JEREMY: Nice. Thank you for sharing that.

CHUCK: Who would be yours? Lightning round for you, Jeremy. Who's your biggest get?

JEREMY: Someone who I'm a little obsessed with right now is Kara Swisher. She is just an unbelievable interviewer. She is so clear about what she thinks is right, and if you're someone she admires, she will tell you that. If you're someone who she thinks is doing the wrong thing, she will tell you that.

She is sort of fearless. She is who she is and that's it, which is a difficult quality for an interviewer. She pulls it off brilliantly. If we had an event that she could moderate or interview executives, I just think that she would bring a lot to a conversation.

CHUCK: What would be the advice that you would give to presenters?

JEREMY: I know this sounds weird. I don't really mean it literally, but I think what I would like to see presenters do more is tell the truth, which isn't to say that I think they're lying. I think they are careful about structuring what they want to say. I think they know what they want to say. I think that if the more they can get up and be at the expense of being polished, it goes a long way towards engendering trust with the people that you're talking to.

CHUCK: I think that's great. I totally agree with you. Final question. What is something that was a big influence on you?

JEREMY: It's a little cliche, but magic. I was definitely one of those 10-year-old boys that was really into magic. I never gave it up even though I don't do magic tricks, per se, in all of my theater writing.

In all of my events, I'm always looking for magic. In some ways, magic is just another word for surprise. The audience wasn't expecting it in a way that delights them and gets them interested and excited.

CHUCK: Thank you so much, Jeremy, for those insightful answers. Thank you for letting me turn the tables on you. You've done such an amazing job with this podcast since we started. I didn't expect to hear your point of view on the questions that you've done.

JEREMY: You're too kind, you're too kind. No, but really this was a lot of fun. I know ever since we started the Pro Cast, we wanted to have you on as the king of the guests. I appreciate you taking the time. I knew you would take the time, but it is a delight to have you finally and to get to talk to you.

It's funny Chuck, we don't really get to work together very much at all, and when we do get to chat and compare notes, it means a lot to me. I always learned so much from talking to you. Thinking back on shadowing you and learning this business by watching you, it's been a real pleasure.

Thank you for sharing this knowledge with me and with everyone who is listening.

CHUCK: Thank you for being a part of the team. I have been thrilled since the day you started. I remember hearing your name before and thinking, “Jeremy Dobrish is interested in getting into corporate events,” and here we are.

JEREMY: Here we are, look at us.

CHUCK: Here we are. Your beard is a little gray. My hairline is a little more receded. Glad that we're still in this together so, thanks again for putting this protest together. You and Bethany have done a great job on it. I look forward to listening to each episode.

JEREMY: Well, getting to talk with my friend and mentor Chuck about theater and live events was great. For me, there were four top takeaways, even if some of them kind of came from me. These are the four tops.

                   • Number four, there are some things that are just better live.

                   • Number three, award shows provide technology for corporate live events.

                   • Number two, sometimes great creative ideas get cut and that's just the way it goes.

                   • Number one, theater people are great to hire. Maybe hire a theater person?

Look, I could talk about this stuff all day. If you want to talk to us about today's topic or anything about live events, check out our episode notes for more information or just go to proscenium.com to drop us a line. Send us a guest suggestion or tell us why you would make a good guest. We would love to hear from you because at Proscenium, we help presenters do their best in front of their most important audiences. As we like to say, we help brands perform. I have a sneaking suspicion that we can help your brand perform.